> I then had to manually transcribe this, which [w]as “fun”.
Can't you select and copy the text in the photo (on most smartphones and PCs at least)?
I'm stunned that "mapping out" blocks of bad RAM is a thing you can do. It reminds me of the old days when hard disks had to be "low-level formatted" first (ask your parents, kids) and it would ask you for a list of bad sectors to map out. Sometimes hard disks would even come with a list of known bad ones printed on the top.
Since the OP mentions Lenovo, look at their other product lines for ones that still have socketed RAM. I'm currently running an E16 with 40GB RAM, 8GB soldered, 32GB socketed. And aside from that it leaves my previous X1 for dead in terms of performance. Lenovo's replacing the carbon fiber case, the whole reason the X1 line is called "Carbon", with crappy black plastic was the last straw.
Like the exact case with phone batteries that are not easily changable by the owner, soldered rams are evil...
> But in the search for even thinner laptops
The LP in LPDDRx isn't about creating thinner devices.
The LP stands for Low Power and is aimed at making devices that draw less power resulting in a longer battery life.
Well that was good to learn!
[dead]
i had to move a very very small resistor in the correct place to make a laptop disregard the soldered ram and only use the sodimm
We used to buy Dells with minimum RAM and add quality third party RAM for way less than Dell wanted for it. They also use ram quantity to leverage other specs we're not bothered about. Of course they are moving to soldered.
Prebuilt branded PCs have always had inferior quality, compatibility, and expandability problems, all with overpricing.
The race to make laptops thinner is pointless. I wish I could buy a thicker laptop that is more robust, repairable, expandable, and has better cooling, with the extra space filled with batteries.
> The race to make laptops thinner is pointless.
Perhaps for you, but I very much care about my laptop's size and especially it's weight, as I carry it around on a daily basis.
Repairing or upgrading it aren't really of interest to me, as I wouldn't be able to aquire the parts where I typically live anyway. And performance and cooling have already been more than good enough for me in most laptops for the last decade.
I wish that my MBP14 was as thin as my partner’s MBA13.
Not to mention how often I long for my MBA11 with the tapered body which almost made it feel like it was floating in my lap when working from the couch.
I genuinely don't think people care that much about thin laptops.
Could it be that thin laptops are largely an excuse to provide a need to solder RAM; which in turn encourages consumption through obsolescence?
My lenovo work laptop is crippled by poor cooling and can only sustain ~1GHz clocks on extended tasks. An old personal laptop 10 years older outperforms it.
Framework?
Framework does exactly what the GP claims to want.
Unfortunately, not many people making those claims _actually_ want them by revealed preferences. They overwhelmingly want the lower price laptops with similar performance specs.
Bash me all you want, but after CPU, GPU, memory controller & a host of other things integrated in modern System-on-Chips (SoC), I've long held the belief that next logical step would be to integrate RAM.
Optimal: piecemeal. As in: X sockets on a board, each socket takes a chip that adds CPU core(s), GPU cores, and some amount of main RAM. More chips, more powerful computer.
Keyword: socket. Read: replaceable. Bad chip out, good chip in. Slow chip out, faster chip in. Soldered onto board = reliable, but a defect could junk the whole machine.
RAM on package or on die is common for laptops now.
RAM uses a different process than the logic nodes you describe. RAM uses tons of capacitors, along with the the transistors.
Then there is the HBM which is an expensive process to mount on the chip.
Manufacturing processes for RAM and processor cores are not one and the same and use different tradeoffs. It's the main problem in-memory processing is running into, which is akin to what you're describing here. The die space required for the same level of performance makes the idea of on-die RAM intractible. The best they're able to do with RAM optimised manufacturing processes are tiny RISC-V cores that lack most of the feature sets. What apple does with moving the RAM chips on to the package really is the only viable option.
I'm using laptop with Ultra 7 268V. It already has RAM on chip. I think they call it "processor package". I don't think it's socketed, though.
> Bash me all you want, but after CPU, GPU, memory controller & a host of other things integrated in modern System-on-Chips (SoC), I've long held the belief that next logical step would be to integrate RAM
Haven't Apple (A-series, M-series) and others been copackaging memory for a while? (SiP or MCM?)
Those aren't socketed though, are they?
LPCAMM2 sockets were supposed to provide all the benefits of soldering while still being a socket. Anyone know the state of adoption?
Lenovo uses it on their latest thinkpad t14.
You can't buy a single LPCAMM2 RAM module on Amazon. eBay has some.
The new Framework 13 Pro laptop ships with LPCAMM2.
https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptop-13-pro-deep-dive-lp...
yeah but there is very little interest in that model compared to ai max line
But no ECC support.
the fact no component supplier, not even alibaba sells LPCAMM2 sockets tells you everything you need to know. The only prices I can find are in $30 range per socket
Connectors are expensive, high-speed ones particularly. $30 is fine, though it makes a giant difference at what quantity that is. Did you look at a single one or 1k?
Honestly, reasonable.
I've been eyeing LPCAMM2 interposers for non-RAM uses - as an off the shelf connector for stacked PCB designs. The conclusion was that it wasn't produced or used at sufficient scale for it to work.
All of the new NVIDIA data center GPUs use SOCAMM2, quite similar to LPCAMM2.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/business/tech-science/20260420/...
Am I the only one who wonders if there is a way to get the kind of performance we want out of non-soldered components/SOC designs? Like from what I've heard, it's a "physics says no" problem, but I'm not sure if that's actually true (not being an expert in this technology) or if it's just the excuse many companies use to justify soldering everything to make serviceability impossible. And it would be really neat if this is actually being looked into by labs right now (possibly with AI's help), since areas like that are where I think (non) LLM AIs might be very useful. Same thing for medicine, materials, etc.
If the CPU can be socketed, there is no reason RAM can't be.
The boards using LPDDR don't have socketed CPUs. Also, every connector is a huge hit to your signal integrity, so one versus two might indeed be a big deal.
And yeah, it can be, but that's how you end up with the far slower regular DDR. Fast, repairable, cheap: pick (at most) two.
Effectively there are no socketed CPUs for laptops, though, for way more than a decade already. Saying that as I'd fully support modular components, as in desktops.
Tsinghua Tongfang (and I think Clevo) offers customizable laptops. Resellers might use own branding.
CPU and RAM are socketed. Clevo had socketed graphics cards too
While it's true that you can get better performance out of soldered memory than a socket, that's also not why vendors use it. Desktop computers, with their very much not soldered memory, get great performance after all. The laptop vendors solder the memory because it lets them make more money off selling units with more memory soldered in. That's all.
That's not all.
"Smartphone makers glue them because it's cheaper and they can make more money ..." No. It's what the consumers want. Thinner phones, water resistant phones, and thinner laptops.
It's partly a thickness problem. Sockets add height to boards.
Besides, since RAM isn't getting cheaper for a while, this isn't a big issue now.
Are any customers asking for a laptop that is 1 or 2mm thinner?
It it possible to desolder and replace the offending RAM if one were sufficiently motivated? I've seen folks doing that to soldered SSDs in MacBooks
Yes, of course. It says - ball grid (array) in the article. Doing it by hand, e.g. with just hot air is proper hard. It's not hard with specialized equipment (that cost way more than the laptop, itself). Sourcing the chips is not easy either.
As for the videos and the Macs, you can see the same people (likely) soldering RAM as well.
Of course it is possible. Unless you're dealing with manufacturer who actively works against that, like Raspberry Pi.
If you live in Shenzhen, it's a subway trip away. Good repair services elsewhere can do it too. Either way any warranty you have is probably getting called into question after that, even if that's supposed to be illegal in some places (e.g. the US - they're supposed to prove that your modification/repair is what caused the warranty fault, but in practice…).
On YT there’s dosdude soldering ram on M series SoCs
Good BGA experience and a steady hand seems required
It is - anything short of HBM can be replaced that way.
The issue, of course, is just how much time, effort and skill is required to do it.
It might become a viable commercial process outside third world countries if RAM prices spike even more - or if someone finds a way to teach an off the shelf $1000 robot arm advanced autonomous microsoldering.
Then there's the problem of forcing the device itself to recognize the new RAM. It's a device-specific trick. RAM sticks have a little tag chip that tells a PC "how much RAM this stick has", but RAM chips themselves don't - so the device has to infer its RAM capacity from elsewhere. Like strap resistors on the board. Which you have to find and adjust for the new RAM capacity. That, or fix the RAM values in firmware, which is also device-specific.
> RAM sticks have a little tag chip that tells a PC "how much RAM this stick has", but RAM chips themselves don't - so the device has to infer its RAM capacity from elsewhere
I'm surprised that in 2026 this is still true.
You could easily fit a little microcontroller on the die of each RAM chip which reports its make/model/manufacturing date, capacity and capabilities, can be triggered to run self-tests, etc. If they aren't doing that yet, I'm surprised that they aren't.
Why bother with the expense if you are permanently soldering it in anyway?
Well, it turns out they actually are bothering – while in DDR thru DDR4, the mode registers are write-only, LPDDR2 onwards have an MRR (Mode Register Read) command, which the CPU/chipset can use to inspect the manufacturer and capacity; and DDR5 has copied the same facility from LPDDR.
The RAM situation is beyond helpless. I was meaning to buy another 32GB stick for my Framework, but they're out of stock and so are any validated alternatives.
I've found just one store that carries them, but seeing as they reported "50+ units in stock" I called the store and learned that "the item is available through a third party vendor within four business days", but looking at that the ratings it would be more like three weeks.